Showing posts with label church and state. Show all posts
Showing posts with label church and state. Show all posts

Monday, 8 December 2008

Excommunication, yet again

I was struck by this post – Catholic fundamentalists in the US are continuing to say Obama voters are in a state of mortal sin. Sorry, correction: mainstream Catholic clergy is saying this. Yes, they are fundamentalists in a way, but not as a splinter group.
It is so unthinkable to have such a situation in France now that I somehow understand why the French, from the right nearly as much as from the left nowadays, have kind of become obsessed with our “laïcité”, i.e. the very strict separation of religion (not only churches, religion itself) and state. It verges sometimes in the (to my mind) ludicrous or fundamentalist or weird, when for instance the French media and chattering classes suddenly talk of nothing else than a couple teenage girls trying to wear a scarf at school (and unvaryingly failing).It took hundreds of years of hard fighting to take out religion from politics, and many are scared that it is just waiting around the corners, awaiting any opportunity.
Probably much of the irrational reactions to Islam have to do with this (the other source, of course, is plain fear of the other, a.k.a. racism). The splitting of religion from state, as all pseudo-pundits are wont to say, is impossible in Islam. Well, sort of. Let’s say, it runs against a long and powerful tradition. But it was exactly the same in Christianity for 1500 years and some…Until it finally happened, but not with the churches’ blessing (!), you can be sure! It happened against them – so it will happen in Islam, eventually.
What puzzles me, in that context, is that many well-meaning Americans seem to think Islam is particularly threatening, or something. At the same time, their churches remind me of the worst they see in Islamic fundamentalists…Go figure...

Thursday, 27 November 2008

Where does the Church belong?

Separation of the Church and State? America has long had its own specific approach to this: Churches are fully separate from the State (understandably as the country was founded by "Nonconformists" who had to flee England because of religious persecution...) - but religion is everywhere (including a lot of swearing on the Bible, or on other holy books...). This is well known, so nothing new here...But what struck me recently is this:
- several Catholic bishops and priests, in their Sunday (and other) preaches, warned their flock against voting for Barack Obama
- some of them even hinted such voters could be in a state of sin, and thus unable to approach the communion
- and since the election this has continued - several Catholic columnists et.al. say that Obama's election is a sign of Catholic moral collapse etc.

I am not sure what is the most stupefying:
(1) that this can happen at all? I have to say that ANYWHERE in Western Europe (except maybe Ireland) this would be impossible to imagine - and not only in France (where the Revolution and the 1905 Separation of Church and State left the Catholic Church in relatively weak standing) but even in Italy (where the Church is powerful, active in politics, and strident about abortion)...such an intervention, in France, would certainly add an immediate 10% of the vote to the politician under attack...and result in the clergymen being sacked on the spot by their hierarchy...
(2) the reason why it happens? the only and exclusive issue is abortion. Now, we all know that abortion is everywhere in this Pope's (and the previous's) speeches and edicts, but not always in the Church's discourse in Europe. They also speak about social justice, peace, helping foreigners, and what not...Seeing the Church (rather: part of it, but still, during the preach) taking such a stance on the basis of abortion exclusively is impressive.

Which brings us to: this strange obsessive debate about abortion...